Ep 9: Dara Nasr

Simon Blake OBE returns for a second series of Just About Coping.

This series we're looking look at a new campaign by MHFA England; My Whole Self. To create mentally healthy workplaces, people need to feel safe to be their ‘whole self’ at work. So how can we create workforces, wherever that may be, where everyone has the freedom to do this? To find out, Simon has gathered leaders from across the worlds of business, sport, and more...

Our first guest is Dara Nasr. Dara is the Managing Director of Twitter UK, where he has been since 2012. With approximately 200 staff, Twitter UK is the only office outside of the US with multiple disciplines including Engineering, Sales, Partnerships, Comms & Marketing. Before that he was at Google, Eurosport, and Flextech TV.

Social media was a theme throughout the first series, so Dara was the perfect person to chat with to kick off the second series. Among many things, Simon and Dara spoke about:

• Why happy workplaces make the best workplaces and the family feel at Twitter
• How to navigate through difficult times as a team and the power of authentic leadership
• Whether it's best to have a 'work' social media profile, or not
• The importance of respecting diversity, differing opinions and boundaries
• Pranking your children and Dara's dog Dave who is by all accounts a 'good lad'

We hope you enjoy the news series and can celebrate My Whole Self Day (18 March) with us!

As always, we'd love to know what you think. If you could take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts we would very much appreciate your feedback. You can do this on most platforms including:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify
• Google Podcasts
• Stitcher
• TuneIn

Don't forget to get involved on social media using #JACPodcast and check out all the My Whole Self fun on our website.

More on Dara: twitter.com/daranasr
Dara's work with the Media Trust: mediatrust.org/about-us/impact-stories/what-happened-when-dara-met-andre/

More on Simon: twitter.com/Simonablake
Simon Blake OBE is the Chief Executive of Mental Health First Aid (MHFA) England. His mission is to improve the mental health of the nation and help build an inclusive and  society where attitudes and behaviours around mental health are normalised. Simon received an OBE in 2011, is Deputy Chair at Stonewall, and enjoys running, equestrian eventing, and walks with his dog.

More on #JACPodcast:
MHFA England: mhfaengland.org
Email: media@mhfaengland.org

More on #MyWholeSelf: mhfaengland.org/my-whole-self/

Transcript

spk_0:   0:00
and its towers. Yeah, yeah,

spk_1:   0:02
on the senator's lot space station. If you want to say that some people have said Mass,

spk_0:   0:07
Aziz sees you for nothing. You see, it's just okay. I'm Simon Blake, and this is just about coping. Siri's, too, before we start. If you haven't had the trailer for this, Siri's, please do give it a listen. It's a nice introduction toe are my whole self campaign, which is the key focus for this second, Siri's. Our first guest is Dara. NASA on Dara is the managing director of Twitter UK, where he's been since 2012 way chest about Doris Career to date, the importance of authenticity and leadership, what makes a great team and navigating difficult times at work. It was also great to hear his thoughts on our relationship with social media and, of course, a bit on self care and a bit on dogs. Social media was a theme that ran throughout our first Siri's. So talking to Dara seemed like a great place to start this 2nd 1 I hope you enjoy it, Dara. Thank you very much for inviting us to come and talk to you here. Twitter UK Cute today on DH. Talked a bit about my whole self campaign just to start off. If you could think about five words. Five phrases thereabouts to describe yourself. What would they

spk_1:   1:23
I suppose along the lines off? Family dog owner Mischievous, distracting It depends. How many words dog owners

spk_0:   1:35
take is one with a hyphen,

spk_1:   1:37
Right? Knew what? Based on the amount

spk_0:   1:42
of words we just Yeah, that's a bit more about mischievous.

spk_1:   1:46
Yeah, um, I suppose it started at school. I think I get it from my my dad. I've got quite a sense of fun. I'm an only child. So I think I went to school to socialise. This much is to learn. So I just had a lot of fun. Said often be, you know, the report, the age old. He's got so much more potential, just like mucking around. I was never a bad kid, but more a kind of slightly mischievous, and I think that's followed me in adult life. I take a lot of joy having fun with this work at home, but you know, whether it's pranking my Children, this is coming across well, isn't a like just a word just having fun So it's that kind of thing you take a great sense of. I think there's an element off British society is that it's a bit like that if you look at the comedy shows that celebrate those kind of things, which I kind of grew up with. But yeah, I think as well. If I look at all the companies have worked at, however hard times have been, and inevitably there are good times and bad times wherever you are. It's often been a sense of camaraderie in fun that's got everyone through stuff and distracting into Yes, it kind of links, And I'm actually, if I had more words, I would sound very distracting and also easily distracted.

spk_0:   3:04
You've got as many words as you want theory.

spk_1:   3:08
I say this two people you know, my colleagues and is that you know, if we settled, we're in an open office. So we sat there in the conversation starts. I'll often join it, and also if I think it's something I want, I want to talk to people about it. So it's that kind of stuff, so you're distracting and easily distracted.

spk_0:   3:26
And just for the record, there are lots of people who like dogs on this, just what sort of dog

spk_1:   3:31
he is officially a caca poop. Or though I'd say it's 99.8% caca on DH. His called Dave

spk_0:   3:38
And so we talked a bit thereabout. Yeah, mischievous at school. Bring some of that into work helps get you through hard times. And the whole question, I think, which were exploring with this campaign, is how do you take the best of yourself into it? You know all of you and ensure that that enables you to be well, perform well. You have fun in the workplace. Can you are you would be seeing different. There are home and at work or shades of the same

spk_1:   4:06
Yes, shade to the same. I'd say in today's society, we're very lucky. And after no kids can come in tow, work and stuff and they when they see me at work, they don't not recognise May, which I suppose is right, I think in the concept of bringing your whole self, I think that talking about that mischievous side that you talk about, I think if I go back to I suppose my parents is quite interesting. They were very Ying and yang in time. My mom is the key breadwinner in our house. Very successful, very driven. Serious. So But that was very laid back. And I think I'm very lucky because I think I've got 50% you know, the best. 50% of each dojo. Perhaps, you know, the alternative would have been a disaster, but I think that kind of followed me in tow. When when I finish my degree, I didn't know what I wanted to do. Andi. I ended up falling into kind of the media world, as most people do, and it's based on a couple of my school friends recommending all that you would love it. So when I start my first job a TV company. I walked in, and it was an era where everyone wore suit and tie on DH amended, Of course, on women were very smartly dressed, so I thought, Well, okay, this is the day that I have to grow up serious, and anyway, so I met my boss. Who is this really serious chap? Um I thought, Wow, he's senior, isn't it, You know, sat down then You know the first time I've had a corporate email address a spell first real time. And then, you know, my boss then sent an email that appeared to be odd later on, but didn't think much of it did. It transpired someone had got onto his lap in a desktop and sent this e mail, and everyone was laughing about it. I thought, Oh, it's Noel that serious then and I thought that. And it's obviously took a while to realise Bash E. What was really championed at that company and other companies are worked out when you worked incredibly hard, but you worked a part for team and with each other. And that company was a fantastic company, you know, because when I decided to go into the media world kind of TV, I really wanted to go into TV, and I was approached by in a few different companies, and this company was easily the smallest on my mom who was worried about Would I have slight zero ambition or Dr So why you choosing this company? And I said, and genuinely two things. One thing I said is I'm guaranteed to get my own E mail address shows rank idiocy, but secondly, I said Everyone just seemed so happy when I was being interviewed. Um, and at the time, I think she just okay, but looking back it was true because that company was tiny. If you look at, you know, the TV advertising revenue they contributed. They got about 2%. Was I TV say got 50%. So we were tiny, but they were so loved because their focus on customer service and failure was often celebrated on. What I mean by celebrated was you weren't ever knocked down. You go and you try and you fail, you learn and you progress.

spk_0:   7:08
That point about failure is an interesting one, isn't it? That when it comes to our whole self, we often worry that will be exposed? Impostors in Joan will be caught out. But is that sense of learning from failure something you've carried through your career on DH trying to instil in the culture? Twitter here?

spk_1:   7:25
Yes, I do know. One thing is is when you're living it When you were 23 24 year old, you don't know that's what's happening. It's the only experience you have on that wasn't specifically what you know, the seniority. I don't think they will go around him right after celebrate failure. It was just what ended up being muscle memory in order to get better. I suppose the big transition and Mr Google Google is almost a fish that's bigger than the pond on. It was superb, but I think because it was, is and was such a wonderful, wonderfully successful company, you forgot what failure? Wass. You know, I remember when I left I was approached by Twitter. It's a company that admired I've been a Twitter user for several years before I joined and I just got to a stage. Well, you ready to go? But I was worried because, you know, I felt very safe for Google on DH. I had two very young Children and a wife and my wife say, I remember we were shopping one Saturday with kids, and if anyone's had the pleasure of shopping on a Saturday with kids, I feel for you. But we were We were out and I was walking around thinking about the pros and the cons on DH said to my wife with the pros, Are this on the cons? Are that and she just literally looked at me and said Which one makes you more excited? And I said, Twitter, she's single if it doesn't work out and get another job on that she that reminded me it was all right to do that. And by the way, the mind set wasn't brought on by Google. Is my own fault. You know, it's stopped being muscle memory. So coming to Twitter, which was, I think, for me the marriage, the best of both worlds in terms of a big American company where it's innovative, it's growing. It's just real, you know, in terms of new products, is doing something truly unique with a truly custom service attitude in many ways. So we do try to instil that in the team. You know, we look at stuff, whatever we do and think, How could we have done it better? A trap? Ah, who's in team once sent an email to a few of us saying, I just met with such and search, and they said how good we were on blubber on. I said Fantastic. If he had said the opposite, would you have sent that e mail? Tow us? And he went, I don't know, actually, well Actually, I'm as interested, if not more so in that.

spk_0:   9:40
And so if you Teo talk a bit about Twitter and and about your you obviously have said Yes, Tio. Come and talk to stay. Which means that in some way or another you support the concept around taking your whole self to work. How do you try and make sure that is part of the fabric off being here? A twitter? What do you do to encourage people to bring their whole self to work?

spk_1:   10:05
We like our team to be happy. Ah, Nde. You can lose sight of that. We thought, you know, when I first started here, there were 20 or people Within about a year, one of our very close, very young colleagues died, You know, she contracted cancer. I mean, when she was diagnosed. Sorry. She died four weeks later. She's 29 years old. I mean, that that doesn't happen, That you don't You can't explain that on. I remember there were, You know, I say not many of us about 30 or so at that stage. And people didn't have never felt they had never seen this before. I haven't really that way. and you had to look at the team and I remember myself for my boss at the time. We're having a 1 to 1 on. You know, the person's parents came to drop some stuff off and we welcome. There were just so lovely and stoic. And then we just sat down in the ones one and just cried, you know? But, you know, So the these things bring you together and you learn as well that actually there's more to life than so being happy being part of a good team. And and you know, the hashtag you might've seen that you might love where you work, gets bandied around from that came from her final tweet on it really brought people together. But you learn from okay, People go through this, but their people are resilient. So to your point, what we try to do for separate reasons, but it's really helped us when we were hiring at the beginning, when the word 20 of us and we needed to employ another 20 in a month, and then we said what? We can't just get the same lot higher everyone from Google or Microsoft or Facebook or wherever Let's try to get a diverse mix of people with unit with differently, not just diverse but different experiences as well. Different backgrounds. It might take longer, but we think you'd be more well rounded. And I think that's what ended up happening. So, you know, we've looked. We hired people from, ah, print whether there were journalists or editors or people in their sales teams with hard people from the TV industry. You know, the radio industry on DH. It's really helped us all learn Mohr. Not just about there. It respected previous experiences, but some of the practises on just have

spk_0:   12:25
a more diverse group of folks like Just move away from your team's on bit onto you. Have there been times through your career where new felt absolutely. This is your space two feet in the ground, owning that space. You know, the Lord, with all of you and other times where that hasn't been quite so much the case and reflecting on those scenarios, what would you take from those in terms of thinking about workplace cultures that we wantto create

spk_1:   12:54
here? I'm incredibly lucky from having a very lucky childhood schooling, etcetera Teo in my work places that I've been asked to join and turning chosen as well on DH. By and large, I have in my there's one place when I was a temp that just I didn't like. I was in credit control and had to phone up old people to make them pay. And it was It came to, you know, the four that the company is targeting old people was they're likely to sign up, and I just did not. So I left. It was attempt, Yes. I wasn't bound to the place everywhere off work since in my career has a stent to be. They're they're they're sold. Their rationale comes from a very good place. I think that first job I was so comfortable too comfortable. Am I learning? There was. I was there for six years and actually probably should've left after four. I'd stop learning I'd stop. Kind of growing is an individual. So when I moved, I thought right, I'm going to go to another company on what? I'm gonna loses. Thiss a the community that I was working, but also this product knowledge I have of having been somewhere that I was one of the veteran, so to speak. But I knew everything. What I needed to know. So that's makes you feel quite powerful. And you talk about impostor syndrome, you know? So I'll go to next coming, I think. Right. I only found out here and you just realised you can do that too. So that really helps. I think in terms of the Aye, there's an element of the company encouraging you to bring your whole self to work. But also you have to be willing tto do it yourself. You know, put yourself often outside of your comfort zone. So I've been very lucky. I think that certainly Twitter really kind of champion. Why Khun do And they let me be May and Good Mae tense abroad, you know, work well for the team and various other things, and I think that's always been the case. Jack Dorsey came and did a trip in the UK a couple of years ago, and often when you know the CEO comes, you take them to see clients or whoever on we did a full briefing. So I thought on the morning I take him through the briefings, I gave him the briefing and he just looked at me and forget that. How are you, How you feeling? And you just feel wow, you know, and I think that I've got a very good friend who, myself and he have had a very similar kind of careers in terms of progression and with the same age, etcetera. I remember a few years ago when times were tough for a Twitter. His company was having a hard time as well. I remember he was struggling in many ways on DH. I worked out what the difference. Wass, my boss and bosses would just so supportive. What's his win on and made him feel inadequate. So I remember once, you know, I felt like I was doing everything wrong. So I said to my past, hugely, like a dyke or Bruce Days Lee guys very kind of. And he's done so much for me in my career, but he once said, You know, he could be very kind of direct firm. Tell you what you're doing right within, and I said, please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong, because I feel like I'm, you know, ruining everything. And you just said you're doing better than I could on It just makes you feel so empowered and liberated, having someone that will tell you straight from a position of love and respect when it's going wrong, all right, That's where I've been lucky, having people to just want you to be you.

spk_0:   16:37
It's interesting the best that you just remind you. The best advice I think I ever got given when I was in my first manager's job was, Make sure your point. People are brain. You're in better than you because then your working life will be much better. It's such on interesting thing because most of us as a manager or as a boss think that you've got to be better than other people. Which course?

spk_1:   16:58
And he felt threatened if people are better than you know, and and that's absolutely true, you know. So can I

spk_0:   17:04
just talk to you a little bit about your personal experience? You often speak about bein back minority ethnic inclusivity and media and tech conferences and talks, and you also mental at the media trust just a bit about why that's so important to do on Dwight so important to you.

spk_1:   17:24
Obviously, diversity inclusion is a huge topic of conversation state. Quite rightly, a four kind of human reasons. You know you shouldn't discriminate. B for productivity reasons. There are countless articles, pieces of work showing that diverse workforce is a better work, more more productive workforce. I'm originally from Iran, but I've lived here all my life. Off the first minute I first lived in London on DH. Then, as I said, my mother, who was the you know, robbing our house hugely successful, got a job. Watch her job didn't require her to necessary to work in London's. We moved to a town called Marlowe, which is in backing shirt. And then I've been in the UK six months, albeit in a school in London for, and my mom and dad went to the local school is going to and said to the headmaster, We're worried about if his English is good enough. Clearly, we've only been here six months and then on the trap said, I'll tell you what, we will monitor this and then let you know they set up A week later, they call them back and said, You've got Mr Mason ask. You got nothing to worry about. Anthony's English is better because he's already been doing schooling on. They were relieved walking out and he said, Look, don't worry, this is the early eighties, but don't worry. We used to teaching foreign Children. We have another foreign child. My mother said, All right, where they from And he said Wales right? And he's being deadly serious, right? So that was the UK, the home counties of that era. And you know, we joke about it now. But I was championed at that school for being different. Genuinely, and every experience was a great experience. And when I went to school, there's more like in secondary schools north London, where it was so diverse. So I have to say, having gone into the work force, I've never felt held back because of my background. So I've been very lucky. However, I recognise that a lot of others have. No, there's just very few people at the bottom, you know, coming. Joining Young. Which means that of course, there's gonna be even fewer top. So a chap I know cordon around Patel is phenomenal. Chap was a prime site outdoor. He had been in history longer and he noticed this, so he just set up this group called Media for All With Me, and we do speed men, touring and various other things and working with the likes of the media trust. Part of it is mentoring, but part of is trying to just talk about ITM or two people who are thinking about what to do and try to create opportunities for them to do it.

spk_0:   20:14
So if we were to talk about social media, just a bit seems appropriate, given your role is easy, isn't it? For people to blame a platform when people are behaving? You know, in particular ways on that platform on DH, Often social media can be demonised for negative impact on well being. But if you were just to talk about, you're sort of pitch around the benefits of social media,

spk_1:   20:38
Yeah, on the one thing on a stresses are obviously we'll talk about benefits. We don't hide from the issues, you know. So we take health on the platform is our number one priority. I'm a very proud with how much we've moved it on. Made it better, but we've got a long way to go

spk_0:   20:57
when you say health is our number one priority. What does that mean?

spk_1:   21:00
Well, we want Twitter to be a lovely place for public conversation. That doesn't mean they just go there and everyone just agreeing with one another. You know, people to support different football teams. People have different political views, but we want there debate to be as healthy as possible on DH. We've tried to make that with various things. S o, we have quality. Philtres got various other things. But also on top of that, the one of the things we've had in the past is that if you were to notice something on Twitter you didn't like, you could report it on DH, we would take it down if it's breached our terms, right? But the onus was on you or others to report it. Now we're trying to put the onus on ourselves to proactively see it using machine learning. So a few years ago, 100% off our action was taken based on reports. Now that's around 50%. So that is health for us. So there's product stuff we can do. We try to simplify our policies which make it really clear on what you can and can't do We've taken off loads of accounts that, you know, we've stopped, for example, around terrorism. I think over 600,000 accounts. But to your point it easy just to get stuck and focus on that. But we don't talk about is the positive side. Decide where. Actually, people come to get a community of people that could be like minded that, for example, interestingly knowledge sharing some unspoken event. And they were talking about, you know, Twitter being like an interest network. So shortest distance between you and what interests you most. And that's a football or music on actually trapping. The audience said, Oh, I'm a professor of autism at the University of Warrick, and there are 41 people who do my job in the world, and we just used Twitter to keep in touch that way. You know, stuff that's very niche like that, to something like Sarah Millican doing her join in event Christmas, where if you're lonely at Christmas, it's It's a way of just chatting to someone else to big movements. Me, too, for example, Black lives matter so that it has a huge

spk_0:   23:15
rock. If you were to just think about the imp er positive impact that it can have for people to be able to express themselves on DH, to express themselves well and to feel able to be authentic and true on those platforms. Is there anything that we can take from that learning and think about how we apply that into the work place?

spk_1:   23:39
I suppose it has empowered people to use their voice stuff. And I think if you go to work and you feel that you can't speak that either down Teo UAL the place you work, right. And if we focus on the place, you work because obviously that might be making it that, you know, make you feel not confident to do it. Um, then you might not be working at the right company for you. This is simple as that, and I know again it's a luxurious thing to say because you have to make money and you have to support people. You know, I get it. But being able to have an opinion and voice it in a civil way and stuff like that is really important. And I think that we actively open encourage open feedback and various other things. It's often stuff you don't necessarily want to hear. But it's really important. I think one of the key things. It's proven about mental. You know, people who struggle with mental health often don't feel they can talk to other people and similarly on. But I'm quite an open person, and that's really help. May I've been really lucky, actually, at Twitter of work with someone who is a coach called Louise Shepard. You know, she said, there is an agenda you want to follow, and I said, Well, look, my whole life is an agenda. We're just all on Things would come up and she's phenomenal and I'm very lucky again. It's very luxurious, but most people should have. Somebody doesn't have to be a coach. You can be a colleague can be a friend. It can be, You know, if you surround yourself with people you love on DH that love you, but in a pure way, not in a way that they're kind of sick of France or anything like that, Or is it something is in it for them? Then you're setting yourself up for success really,

spk_0:   25:20
really interesting because one the things you talked about hadn't made the link before was around. Yeah, we've got to have these discussions in a way that is civil on one of things which some people are saying about the principal of my whole self is what if actually people start saying behaving badly and then just saying This is me on that I guess my response to that is there will always be boundaries here. We may have a flexible dress code, but if you turn up with nothing on, then somebody will say something to you that we want to understand each other's personalities. But you can't just say sorry I didn't meet the deadline because I'm one of those people who doesn't mean deadlines. You there are murderers there, those rules around all sorts of things. So if somebody was to question you about do are we in danger of welcoming the wrong things into the workplace by encouraging people's whole cells? How would you respond to

spk_1:   26:14
think the whole thing about my whole self is respecting other people's whole cells? Isn't it s so I I would kind of sum it up, the whole the whole. The whole point is, if you think everyone is the same as you you're wrong, so accept their differences. So there's your point. There's boundaries, you know, be your whole self respecting others, you know. And I think that's important. And I think the happy thing is incredibly important. And actually on that I was at this as a conference, of course. And there's a chap that they spoke with a guy, Sean Acre, whose an American psychologist, I believe, at Harvard University. And when he was growing up, he applied for Harvard thinking, Never get in and he got in and he was overjoyed. And when he went, they thought everyone would be like him on the first thing. You notice that there are a lot of people there that from when they were three or four, they're being groomed to go, you know, to somewhere like this. But it's almost that it tragic that it had no positive impact or not the positive it could have had. And he got fascinated with this and he went into the mind. And he said that people think that in order to be happy, you need to be successful. But all the work he's done has shown that it's the other way around the CEOs that he interviews. You said something of the vast majority are going to give you a number because I'll get it wrong. But it's the vast, vast, vast majority of CEOs in food are hugely positive people. So they've become CEOs because they're positive. You know, they're not happy because they've become a C chair,

spk_0:   27:50
a thing called social CEOs, which is awards for chief execs who are exemplary on social media. One of the things we haven't received anything for you're, you know, in the third Sector Twitter doesn't count in definitely the private sector on DH. One of things that the judges are really clear about is that you still only have one account that part off. Being yourself as a chief executive demonstrating authentic leadership is, yeah, one account where that's instagram Twitter, you linked in et cetera. What do you

spk_1:   28:24
wanna count on H where you want

spk_0:   28:26
you want? You don't have to tour the Deo Davin two daughters and there are empty of Twitter. What's what's your view on that?

spk_1:   28:36
Yeah, I think one seems, whether it's more authentic. I think the authenticity again, Twitter is a key thing. You know, I think that CEOs that great on Twitter, Yes, they talk about their business, but they might also talk about their passions and talk about other things. You know, if you were to follow, May, you know, wouldn't necessarily recommend you do. But I wouldn't. Just after that, I wouldn't just talk about work. I might talk about something I've seen. I like something else. Retweet. Something funny again. That's Twitter's bit. Maura, about Look at this rather than look at May. So you kind of share staff do various other stuff This So yeah, my recommendation. What I do is tow. Have one on discuss on that one. What you want to

spk_0:   29:23
discuss on the really important bit of that is that is up to all of us to hold our own boundaries. There's nothing mandatory about what we share. What we don't show that's on platforms or work is ensuring there not barriers to sharing yourself.

spk_1:   29:38
No, obviously, on Twitter, you know, yet we have terms of service. You have toe respect and within and again, I think you have to stop what we you know, we said, it's about you bring your whole self whilst respecting other people have whole Selves to.

spk_0:   29:52
I'll put in a word for that special award for the third Sector chief execs. Next time I'll be

spk_1:   29:57
starting to write my speech right now.

spk_0:   30:01
So just to move us into finishing one of the things which we know, it is absolutely vital for people to be able. Teo be successful at work. Tio Live and on T B well is to also look after themselves. Tio Tio have their form of self care. How do you as a MD off a big company? Look after yourself? Switch off.

spk_1:   30:26
It's interesting because I've got a family and have two daughters of 12 and 10 on DH. My wife and my dog, Dave. Yeah, he's a great letter. I think I can talk about him for ages, but when they're young, very young, it's difficult, you know, because you're busy it working very busy at home. You get a lot of joy, but it's quite difficult to look after yourself. Someone a Google once said. It's like you could only see and black and white. You know you've lost all sense of peripheral or, you know, depth in your vision is just monochrome. And I think that. And so they've gotten older. It's been fascinating to see what I like doing, and oddly, quite sadly, I like call of duty, right? And I love doing stuff with my family, you know? Ah, wife said, You know, we need to have instead of Christmases and subset of doing a lot of presents as having do experiences, whether it and it really is cool, get away from your phone. I have to say one of the things, and this is an odd one. I've had a very unhealthy relationship with exercise from life. Either do all or nothing on DH. About a year ago, I joined a place near where I live and I love it because again, really odd. It's not just we go toe workout, do these classes is a bit like a community. Go when it suits, do it, work hard, then I can work on, and actually in many ways it saved May, you know, in in terms of my happiness. Last year my father died and it wasn't wholly unexpected, but you can't prepare for these things. I know you've talked about bereavement, and it's hard, very hard, but having that has really helped me because afterwards a. There's a sense of smart unit workout. But b, you just feel mentally much better about yourself, and I think more equipped to cope with stuff. So the way I keep you know, myself kind of sane or happy and stuff is you have to do stuff that makes you happy and surround you. Surround yourself again by people that you love and that love you, and that can be anywhere that can be at work. A football match. Lunch with friends on a weekly basis, monthly basic could be anywhere but just finding those people.

spk_0:   32:34
Last question. You talked about your your daughter's on DH because if you think sort of fast forward a generation, what sort of environment would do hope that they will be living in operating in order to thrive and Teo, be there cells where the scientists worked in cafe, working tech, whatever.

spk_1:   32:58
I've got no idea. But what I realised was, as a told us, quite mischievous school, just nice, 3 60 and I was very kind of average, not middle of the road in the store could've done better on whatever, but there were some people that were just, you know, yours have people that you think her like brain boxes or whatever. And actually, but some of them lacked a lot off social confidence and various other things. And I realised when I had Children I cannot make my Children amazing at maths or English or science or whatever. All I want them to bay is happy, healthy and confident. And I can contribute to a ll those three things. And actually, what my parents made me feel was just very, very loved that I could achieve what I wanted you. You know, for example, my mom would say I'd come home and I'd say, Oh, I'm the second shortest in my class And she'd say No, you know, and it was factually correct. She couldn't argue with it, but I knew what she was trying to do was she thought I was feeling bad about myself. I wasn't. But you know, it's that kind of thing, and all I can try to do for my Children is I don't want to lie to them about their high. Don't get me wrong. But I want them just to feel really happy about who they are about who they have that love them and stuff healthy. Contribute what I can there. So just confident. Because whatever society is like if you are those three things, you're more likely to succeed. In my opinion, that's

spk_0:   34:31
what I think. Brilliant. Thank you. I mean, I think, Yeah, there's, um some themes aren't they have come all the way through that. We have choices. Think about surrounding ourselves. People love and love and be kind to people around you on DH find the things which you enjoy and hopefully the rest follows. So thank you. Thank you. So that was Dara. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. A great start to the series and thank you to both Dara on the team A Twitter for inviting us to their amazing offices for this chance. It was great to talk to her about his experiences. Is understanding around social media on DH to think about his hopes the future of relations, mental health Do remember to subscribe rate and review on your chosen podcast APS get involved on social media using the hashtag J C podcast Today the 18th of March is also my whole self day, so make sure to cheque out the my whole self hashtag on social media and join in the conversation. I hope you're looking forward to the rest of the series, but for now I'm Simon Blake and thanks for coping with us.